Do spiritual beings live in a separate universe?

1. The usefulness of this study

Occasion for this study was given by an Arian, from the Watchtower organization. In a discussion with an OODE colleague, he was compelled to admit that -since Jesus Christ created EVERYTHING (“for without Him, nothing came to being, of those things that have come to being” – John 1:3)- then He must have also created Time-Space. (In fact, he was presented with scientific data regarding the commencement of Time-Space). This in turn signified that the One Who created Time itself, CANNOT HIMSELF HAVE A “BEGINNING”. With this admission therefore, that Christ did in fact create Time, the Arian was compelled to admit that Christ has NO BEGINNING, because the notion of “beginning” presupposes Time!  How is it possible, for the One Who created Time, to have a “beginning”?

But, this admission put him in a tight spot, because it was directly opposed to the dogma of his religion, which believes that Christ has a “beginning”!  So, he resorted to the following contrivance:  He said that although Christ may have created our Time-Space, He Himself has a “beginning”, in another, spiritual universe, with its own Time-Space, where all spiritual beings such as Him supposedly exist!!!  With this wily theory, he tried to present a compromise, between Christ’s creation of Time-Space, and his own religion’s misguided dogma, that Christ has a “beginning”.

In this study, we shall present in more detail the Scriptural arguments that our colleague had roughly presented at the time, so that they may be made available to every Christian who needs to refute similar theories. And we hope that the Arian friend will also review his positions after reading this study, which we shall also send him in writing, if he honestly prefers the truth to a man-made organization.

 

2. Spirits CANNOT foresee the future

If the spirits were indeed in another time bracket, which somehow “contained” our own Time, but they themselves did not reside within “our Time”, then, they might have been able to foresee our future!  They would have been able to see what our future contained! Similarly therefore, the demons –or the “gods” of the Gentiles (1 Corinthians 10:20 …whatever the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to the demons and not to God) – would have also been able to prophesy about the future!  But this is something that the Holy Bible rejects outright as a concept. In the Holy Bible, it is perfectly clear that the “gods” of the Gentiles are WITHIN TIME, and in fact, in our Time bracket. This is why it is also made absolutely clear that only God can announce a future event before its time: (For who can announce those things that were from the beginning so that we may learn, and those things that are ahead of us, so that we may say they are true? There is no-one who can foretell, not even the one who is listening to your words. Isaiah 41:26)

[…. 26 τις γαρ αναγγελεί τα εξ αρχής, ίνα γνώμεν, και τα έμπροσθεν, και ερούμεν ότι αληθή εστιν; ουκ έστιν ο προλέγων ουδέ ο ακούων υμών τους λόγους….]

It clearly says here, that nobody can know beforehand and tell us what lies ahead in the future. In fact, we shall see in another verse, that not only is it clarified even more, it is actually DARING the demons (the “gods” of the Gentiles) to foretell the future, if they can: (“22 Let them approach and announce to you what is going to happen, o, tell us, what the precedent things were, and we shall alert our mind in order to know what their outcome will be; or, tell us, what are the events to come? 23 Announce to us the upcoming things of the end (of time), and we shall thus know that you are gods.” Isaiah 41:22-23)

[…22 εγγισάτωσαν και αναγγειλάτωσαν υμίν α συμβήσεται, ή τα πρότερον τίνα ην, είπατε, και επιστήσομεν τον νουν και γνωσόμεθα τι τα έσχατα, και τα επερχόμενα είπατε ημίν. 23 αναγγείλατε ημίν τα επερχόμενα επ ‘ εσχάτου, και γνωσόμεθα ότι θεοί εστε·….].

But we find in the Holy Bible even more tangible proof that the demons could not foresee the future:

“For we speak wisdom unto the perfected ones; not the wisdom of this age, neither that of the lords of this age, who will be abolished; instead, we speak in mystery the hidden wisdom of God, which was destined by God for our glorification, before the ages, and which none of the lords of this age knew of; for if they had known of it, they would not have crucified the Lord of Glory”  (1 Corinthians 2:6-8)

[…6 Σοφίαν δε λαλούμεν εν τοις τελείοις, σοφίαν δε ου του αιώνος τούτου, ουδέ των αρχόντων του αιώνος τούτου των καταργουμένων· 7 αλλά λαλούμεν σοφίαν Θεού εν μυστηρίω, την αποκεκρυμμένην, ην προώρισεν ο Θεός προ των αιώνων εις δόξαν ημών, 8 ην ουδείς των αρχόντων του αιώνος τούτου έγνωκεν· ει γαρ έγνωσαν, ουκ αν τον Κύριον της δόξης εσταύρωσαν·…]

This passage says that the demonic lords of THIS age did not know of the “wisdom of Christ” (in other words, the Gospel that we preach). Because if they had known it, if they had known in advance that the crucifixion and the resurrection of our Lord would save mankind, they would most assuredly not have gone ahead with the crucifixion of the Christ!  Obviously though, they could NOT foresee the future, and had no knowledge of the Gospel!  And it is very important, that they are referred to as “the lords of THIS age”.  This clearly indicates that they are not in another time zone, therefore they co-exist in our own time bracket, and hence cannot know the future!

The above passage is not referring simply to human lords. It is speaking of the demonic lords. Notice how Satan is referred to:

(“…now is the judgment time for this world; now shall the lord of this world be cast out…” John 12:31).

[…. 31 νυν κρίσις εστί του κόσμου τούτου, νυν ο άρχων του κόσμου τούτου εκβληθήσεται έξω…]

We must pay special attention to the word “now” that is used here: Now! This means Satan is living in our Time zone!

Also :  “..as regards judgment, the lord of this world is already being judged..” (John 16:11)

[…11 περί δε κρίσεως, ότι ο άρχων του κόσμου τούτου κέκριται…]

In fact, in another passage we see the same statement as the above, only with a different wording. It says that with His crucifixional sacrifice, Christ “rid Himself” of those demonic lords who, being unable to know the future, dared to crucify Him.  Notice what He says about “the principalities and the powers” of this world:

“having cast aside the principalities and the powers, he made a public example of them, having prevailed over them Hmself” (Colossians 2:15)

[…15 απεκδυσάμενος τας αρχάς και τας εξουσίας εδειγμάτισεν εν παρρησία, θριαμβεύσας αυτούς εν αυτω….]

Had they seen beforehand the imminent “trap” of the crucifixion, they would NOT have dared to crucify Him, with the aid of their human pawns!

The Holy Bible makes it absolutely clear that, not only do the demonic spirits NOT KNOW the future, but, neither do the angels!  Observe what is written here:

“…. which was revealed to them (the prophets), that it was not for their sakes,  but in order that we may be served by those things that were just announced through those who preached the Gospel to you in the Holy Spirit, Who was sent from heaven; which things the angels themselves yearn to study.” (1 Peter 1:12)

[…12 οίς απεκαλύφθη ότι ουχ εαυτοίς, υμίν δε διηκόνουν αυτά, α νυν ανηγγέλη υμίν δια των ευαγγελισαμένων υμάς εν Πνεύματι Αγίω αποσταλέντι απ' ουρανού, εις α επιθυμούσιν άγγελοι παρακύψαι….]

Notice how the angels observe the Christians, in order to learn about the Gospel!  If they did have knowledge of the future, they would have known all the depths of the Gospel and would not have the need to observe us, who live within Time.

 

3. Spiritual beings share our Time bracket

Let us now look at the matter from another angle.  We shall present Scriptural passages, which indicate that spiritual beings live, like us, in our universe, and are subject to our Time.

When Christ expelled a legion of demons from a man possessed by them, notice what the demons said to Him:  “and behold, they cried out, saying: what is there between us and you, Jesus, Son of God? Did you come here before Your time (=prematurely), to torture us? (Matthew 8:29).

[…29 και ιδού έκραξαν λέγοντες· τι ημίν και σοί, Ιησού υιε του Θεού; ήλθες ώδε προ καιρού βασανίσαι ημάς;…]

 These demons were therefore in our Time; they knew (from past prophecies) that they were destined to suffer; only they expected it to be sometime in the future. The fact that they said “Did You come here before Your Time to torture us?” shows us that they too existed within -and were also subject to- our Time bracket.

Also, it is clarified elsewhere that Satan is subject to our Time:  

“…for this, rejoice you heavens, and also those who are camped in them; woe to the earth and the sea, for the devil descended towards you, having immense anger, knowing that he has little time…” (Revelation, 12:12)

[…12 δια τούτο ευφραίνεσθε ουρανοί και οι εν αυτοίς σκηνούντες· ουαί την γην και την θάλασσαν, ότι κατέβη ο διάβολος προς υμάς έχων θυμόν μέγαν, ειδώς ότι ολίγον καιρόν έχει….]

In another passage, we read that the devil and his angels –IN THE PREDETERMINED TIME- are thrown into the lake of fire, together with the beast and his terrestrial servants: “And when the thousand years are completed, Satan shall be released from his confinement, and shall come forward to mislead the nations that are at the four corners of the earth; the Gog and the Magog, congregating them for war, whose numbers are as the sands of the sea. And they ascended, across the breadth of the earth, and they encircled the encampment of the saints and beloved city; and fire came down from heaven by God, and devoured them. And the devil who misled them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and they shall be tormented, day and night, for all the ages thereafter...” (Revelation, 20:7-10)

[…7 Και όταν τελεσθή τα χίλια έτη, λυθήσεται ο σατανάς εκ της φυλακής αυτού, 8 και εξελεύσεται πλανήσαι τα έθνη τα εν ταις τέσσαρσι γωνίαις της γης, τον Γώγ και τον Μαγώγ, συναγαγείν αυτούς εις τον πόλεμον, ων ο αριθμός αυτών ως η άμμος της θαλάσσης. 9 και ανέβησαν επί το πλάτος της γης, και εκύκλευσαν την παρεμβολήν των αγίων και την πόλιν την ηγαπημένην· και κατέβη πυρ εκ του ουρανού από του Θεού και κατέφαγεν αυτούς· 10 και ο διάβολος ο πλανών αυτούς εβλήθη εις την λίμνην του πυρός και του θείου, όπου και το θηρίον και ο ψευδοπροφήτης, και βασανισθήσονται ημέρας και νυκτός εις τους αιώνας των αιώνων….]

 Naturally, this “predetermined time” is dependent on the time of the Second Coming of Christ! Therefore, the spiritual beings are certainly subject to the same Time as we are!

Notice what God said to Job:  “4 Where were you, when I was laying the foundations of the earth? Tell me, if you have sagacity. 5 Who defined its dimensions, if  you know? Or, who introduced crops on it? 6 On what base were its links embedded? Who was it that laid the cornerstone upon it? 7 When stars were born, all of my angels praised me with a loud voice….” (Job, 38:4-7)

[… 4 που ης εν τω θεμελιούν με την γην; απάγγειλον δε μοι ει επίστη σύνεσιν. 5 τις έθετο τα μέτρα αυτής, ει οίδας; ή τις ο επαγαγών σπαρτίον επ ‘ αυτής; 6 επί τίνος οι κρίκοι αυτής πεπήγασι; τις δε εστιν ο βαλών λίθον γωνιαίον επ ‘ αυτής; 7 ότε εγενήθησαν άστρα, ήνεσάν με φωνή μεγάλη πάντες άγγελοί μου…]

As we can see here clearly, the angels were observers, AT THE TIME the earth was being created!

Furthermore, the New Testament informs us that when Christ returns IN THE FUTURE, during His Second Coming, not only mankind, but also every other creation –both material and spiritual- shall kneel before Him:  “so that in the name of Jesus, every knee shall bend - of the celestial, and of the terrestrial and of the infernal..” (Philippians 2:10)

[…2 "ίνα εν τω ονόματι Ιησού παν γόνυ κάμψη επουρανίων και επιγείων και καταχθονίων" …]

However, we have another, even clearer and more impressive reference to the fact that our Time applies for the angels also, even to a degree of accuracy of days!  Let’s take a look at the section of Daniel, where an angel was speaking to him: “and he said to me: do not be afraid Daniel, for, from the first day that you gave your heart to understanding and suffering in the face of the Lord thy God, your words were heard, and I came to your words. And the lord of the kingdom of the Persians stood against me for 21 days and behold, Michael –one of the principal powers- came to assist me, and I left him there, together with the lord of the kingdom of the Persians..”  (Daniel 10:12-13)

[… 12 και είπε προς με· μη φοβού, Δανιήλ, ότι από της πρώτης ημέρας, ης έδωκας την καρδίαν σου του συνείναι και κακωθήναι εναντίον Κυρίου του Θεού σου, ηκούσθησαν οι λόγοι σου, και εγώ ήλθον εν τοις λόγοις σου. 13 και ο άρχων βασιλείας Περσών ειστήκει εξ εναντίας μου είκοσι και μίαν ημέραν, και ιδού Μιχαήλ εις των αρχόντων των πρώτων ήλθε βοηθήσαί μοι, και αυτόν κατέλιπον εκεί μετά του άρχοντος βασιλείας Περσών…]  

If angels existed in a universe of another Time, that angel would not have needed to fight for 21 earth days before reaching Daniel. The angel would have jumped directly into that point in time, to give him the message!  The fact that Daniel’s prayer first had to be heard, and then it was necessary for the angel to fight for 21 days with another spiritual being, proves that both those spirits were moving within our Time!

Of course, spiritual beings exist in different spatial dimensions than ours, however, they are in the same Time-Space continuum as us, and they experience the same dimensions of time as us humans. The present, the past and the future of our own universe are common to all of us!  They likewise began to exist, as creations of the same Creator, in the same Creation, in the same universe as us. The fact that they move in certain dimensions of space differently does not mean they belong to another universe.

Anything created that IS NOT within the same Time-Space as us is NONEXISTENT, because it has no “before”, no “after” no “now”, that can relate to our world. It does NOT exist!  The only existent thing that does not belong to our Time-Space continuum is –to us- the Triadic God. Because He is linked to us beyond “Time” through His uncreated energies, and within “Time” through the incarnated Christ. It is “within Him, that we live and move and exist” (Acts 17:28)

 

4. Is the Logos the creator of material Time only?

We should conclude this study, with the final proof of the Christian position, that Christ is not merely an angel who has a beginning –according to certain contemporary Arians who contradict the first two chapters of the Epistle to Hebrews- but that Christ Himself is the Creator ALSO OF ANGELS, without a “beginning”, either for material Creation as well as for spiritual Creation.

Let’s recall that same verse we started with, and observe it more closely in what it says about the Christ-Logos: “1 In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and God was the Logos. 2 He was since the beginning with God, 3 everything came to being by Him; for without Him, nothing came to being, of those things that have come to being” (John 1: 1-3)

[… 1 ΕΝ αρχή ην ο Λόγος, και ο Λόγος ην προς τον Θεόν, και Θεός ην ο Λόγος. 2 Ούτος ην εν αρχή προς τον Θεόν. 3 πάντα δι' αυτού εγένετο, και χωρίς αυτού εγένετο ουδέ εν ό γέγονεν….]

This passage does NOT discern between material and spiritual creation. It makes it absolutely clear that Christ brought EVERYTHING to being, and it analyzes emphatically, that without Christ, NOT ONE single thing of all that exists would have ever come to being!  Unless of course one also considers the angels as uncreated and therefore equal to God!

Naturally, the Holy Bible doesn’t leave any blanks. There is a passage, which expands on these words even further!  In it, it is made absolutely clear that when Christ created the world, the Holy Bible DOES NOT distinguish between the material and the spiritual world, but it specifies that: “..15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation, 16 for in Him was everything created: everything that is in the heavens and on the earth, all things visible and invisible, whether thrones, or authorities, whether principalities or powers; everything was created by Him and for Him, 17 and He precedes everything, and everything was constituted by Him…” (Colossians, 1: 15-17)

[…15 ος εστιν εικών του Θεού του αοράτου, πρωτότοκος πάσης κτίσεως, 16 ότι εν αυτω εκτίσθη τα πάντα, τα εν τοις ουρανοίς και τα επί της γης, τα ορατά και τα αόρατα, είτε θρόνοι είτε κυριότητες είτε αρχαί είτε εξουσίαι· τα πάντα δι' αυτού και εις αυτόν έκτισται· 17 και αυτός εστι προ πάντων, και τα πάντα εν αυτω συνέστηκε…]

Clearly, Christ is the Creator and He is without a “beginning”, not only with regard to material creation but also to spiritual creation. And NOBODY can argue that, without clearly and outrightly contradicting the Holy Bible and science.

We therefore invite all those victims of Arian heresies who want to believe that they love the truth, to abandon their misguided Arian path and come to finally meet the true God and Savior Jesus Christ, and bestow on Him the worship that befits Him!

 

Research - Text: G. K.

Greek text